Moving Along

[atherleisure]

Explain to me why I just made an ivory silk 18th century petticoat and cut a matching bodice when I have two 1780's dresses that have never been worn. I was excited about Victorian costuming opportunities upon moving to Texas, but here I am still stuck in the 18th century. I guess I've been making plans for that period for so long that I can't get it out of my system yet.

I think the next thing I want to do is 1610's, but I really need to do a lot more reading before I start that. I'm not even quite sure what layers I need. I see lots of Tudor information, but Stuart seems to be less prevalent. There's a painting of a girl in a shift and kirtle that's dated 1612/1620 that I like, and I'm hoping I can do something like that with a jacket over it. I really don't want to make stays for it. Any suggestions?

(ETA link to the picture I mentioned.)

Comments

[reine-de-coudre.livejournal.com]

you can absolutely do a kirtle/petticoat with upperbodies for early 17th century, as opposed to a fully boned separate pair of bodies. the extant pairs of bodies we have all belong to very upperclass women. common women are definitely still wearing kirtles/petticoats with upperbodies into the 17th century. you don't *need* a bum roll, depending on what class you're going for.

i do have undergarments for an upperclass woman that i've already made (http://reine-de-coudre.livejournal.com/209981.html). you'll notice that the petticoat is worn UNDER the bodies and are tied together. this is the newer alternative to a petticoat with upperbodies stitched to the skirt. unfortunately, period terminology is a bit sketchy on what differentiates a kirtle from a petticoat, since petticoats often had upperbodies stitched to them. but both garments generally have a bodice and skirt stitched together which may or may not be made of the same fabric. it /seems/ that petticoats are a lesser garment than kirtles, if that makes sense. but "kirtle" falls out of fashion by the 17th century. it's near the end of the 16th c and early 17th c that we start seeing completely separate skirt "petticoats" like we think of today. this is all pretty new research from the last few years (sort of like the "polonaise" discovery).

i would highly suggest getting "the tudor tailor" if you haven't!!! a wealth of info there. also think about joining the "elizabethan costuming" page on FB. a truly excellent group. i work at jamestown settlement making historical clothing, so early 17th c consumes my life! i definitely do not claim to know everything, but i've learned a lot in the year and a half i have worked there.

for what it's worth, i'm working on my lower class/common woman's 17th c outfit right now and will be doing a write up on it soon! i just finished my petticoat with upperbodies. next will be a partlet and waistcoat (jacket)!

[reine-de-coudre.livejournal.com]

this is an excellent write-up on petticoats for the 16th and early 17th centuries:
http://www.elizabethancostume.net/petticoat.html

[atherleisure.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link. I enjoyed the article very much. If you have any more, I'd love anything you're willing to share.

[atherleisure.livejournal.com]

I remembered about your early 17th century posts after I wrote yesterday morning and was hoping you would chime in. Thank you so much for doing so. I felt like what I had read so far indicated that I probably needed smock, bodied petticoat, possibly a kirtle (though I wasn't that clear on the difference between the two), maybe a bumroll, and a jacket.

I don't have The Tudor Tailor, but I read it recently. I'll probably get it back out of the library unless I find a good price on a copy shortly.

I hope you finish yours soon because I can't wait to see what you've done!

Thanks for the suggestions.

[reine-de-coudre.livejournal.com]

i'm glad that was helpful! i was worried about coming off as a pushy know-it-all, but i get excited when other people do this underrepresented era! i've learned so much in the past year and a half and i'm happy to share it!

i don't know if you'll be able to see this, but it was a thread i started about kirtles and petticoats. let me know if you can't see it and i'll see what i can do... i asked specifically about 1560s-70s but i think it applies to early 17th c as well.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/29374273995/permalink/10152914107523996/

[atherleisure.livejournal.com]

NOT a pushy know-it-all at all. I fully admit that I know practically nothing about the era - probably just enough to be dangerous. I know it's not a common costuming era; maybe that's part of why I like it. There are a few uncommon eras that I want to do things in, but it makes research a lot harder. Please feel free to lecture me as much as you like, and I will be a good pupil. (That's not to indicate that your previous comments sounded like a lecture, rather that I'm willing to be lectured in your area of expertise.)

Unfortunately, I can't see the link without logging into Facebook, and I don't do Facebook.